NMC057 KonMari on a Boat

Daphine Mbithuka


Episode #57: KonMari on a Boat

Recorded: June 12, 2017

Location: Florida

Subject: Losing sight of clutter: working out the KonMari process on the s/v Dawn Treader.

“In order to discover new oceans, you must first have the courage to lose sight of the shore.” This quote become Rosa Linda Román’s mantra and a day-to-day application in every undertaking in her life. Including, how she handles clutter in the s/v Dawn Treader.

As she narrates in this episode, having watched her mom, relatives, and even herself struggle with clutter as an adult, it has become one of her pet peeves.  But gratefully, learning about Marie Kondo’s KonMari process (the process of organizing and decluttering things) has become one of the biggest blessings in her life. And as you follow through this episode of New Mexi-Castaways, you will get to have an experience of how the KonMari process works. And also, why it’s essential to let go of stuff that we hold on to dearly thinking that it’s meaningful. We hope that you not only learn a lot in this episode but also, get to enjoy it.

P.S. If you liked this episode check out our most recent episode:

NMC056 Old and New Mexico Trips


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Episode Transcript:

Rosa Linda Román (00:15): Hello and welcome to New Mexi-Castaways. I'm Rosa Linda Román and I am talking to you from the Dawn Treader. Right now I'm in the forward, let's see forward portside cabin, which belongs to my son and daughter, six-year-old son and 10-year-old daughter, Samuel and Ziva, and I'm going through their room in their absence. I know that sounds awful. But I warn them that while they are going to visit cousins in Chicago, and my husband is traveling to do his clinical work in New Mexico, I am going to re-KonMari this house/boat. Rosa Linda Román (01:12): Now, if you're new to New Mexi-Castaways, let me tell you a little bit about us. I'm Rosa Linda Román and this is the audio companion to my longtime video podcast turned TV show in Albuquerque. And now, basically, this is the primary way I share most of everything that goes on since my family moved on to this sailing catamaran. We are actually coming up on the one-year anniversary of moving on to the Dawn Treader. It's so hard for me to believe it's been a year already. But, you know, on Facebook you get these updates that say this time last year or you know, on this day. And so, looking at that, sure enough, we were leaving New Mexico on this day last year. And we drove across country, we had just finished doing a system or a program called KonMari, KonMaring the house meaning we followed this system by Marie Kondo, the life-changing magic of tidying up to downsize everything in our house and move on to this catamaran. Rosa Linda Román (02:27): Our house was about 2500 square feet. I don't know the square footage of the boat, but I can tell you it's significantly smaller, a lot less storage, plus, there are weight requirements that you can't just put everything and anything on the boat. You have to, you know, limit the amount of stuff that you have. Well, we have five people who live on the boat. We moved aboard back last June with six people. And that was, we had a nanny that came with us from New Mexico, and she decided to head back to New Mexico. We actually had another nanny after that who sailed with us to The Bahamas. But now she went back to college to finish her degree. And in fact, she's the person who's going to be picking up my daughter Ahava from gymnastics today. And then, she, Allie is going to help me KonMari the freshly laundered clothes that are taking up most of the guestroom. And that's really what's on my mind today, is overhauling or re-overhauling the boat on this almost anniversary of us living here. Rosa Linda Román (03:39): It's funny because clutter is not funny, but clutter has been something that kind of plagued me forever and ever. I grew up with clutter. My mom, I know she struggled with it, because it was something that her family struggled with. I have relatives who had way too much. I felt like we were in pretty much better shape than some of my relatives, but we had a lot of clutter. And it's an ongoing struggle that I face now as an adult as well. And my mom, gratefully, is still alive and we talk about it all the time. And she and I kind of went through the KonMari process together back a year ago, when I was preparing to move on to the boat. I shared a lot of it through Facebook Live and she kind of helped, encouraged me to stick with it, and said that some of the things that we experienced were helpful, which is kind of nice to know. I hope that one day my kids, you know, benefit or I benefit from my kid's learning and wisdom. Rosa Linda Román (04:42): So anyway, this is now coming up on the year. It's weird to look around me and see how much stuff we have everywhere again. Now, being on a boat I'm really determined to keep the surfaces clear. Like, all the counter space and you know, the shelving that just kind of the… not the shelves that hold the books, because those have like rails, but just the little edging shelves or edge of the bedrooms all have clutter on them. And our guest room pretty much ever since Allie moved out in January, and now at the time of this recording, it's June. Well, we had some guests, so we kind of fixed it up and made it functional by shoving everything into different cabinets in my bedroom. But then as soon as all of our guests left, I pulled everything out. And it's been living here in this guest room ever since. And I am determined for the seven days or eight days that Nathan's gone this trip and that two of my kids are out of the house, and the other one is training five hours, five days a week, I am determined to get a handle on this mess. Rosa Linda Román (06:04): And so, I thought I'd share some of my thoughts with you as I'm doing that. Now. If you don't know what KonMari is go back and listen to some of the episodes about, that because that really was a good part of this podcast and prep before it became New Mexi-Castaways and I'm still calling it New Mexicast. A lot of my episodes were about trying to downsize and deal with the KonMari process, so feel free to go back through the archives and find some of that information. But today, what's on my mind is just, well, A, how much you can accumulate with five people on a boat even with four months of that year being spent on remote islands where you shouldn't be able to accumulate much, because they don't have a lot, you still find that there are things that just never find a home. And for me, that's the number one thing that is going to spark my decision about this stuff for this round. Now, I am not doing the traditional KonMari festival, as they call it, where you, basically, what I should be doing is taking every article of clothing out of every part of the boat, putting it in a pile on one of the beds, or the dining room table, or wherever, and then, holding each item and determining what sparks joy. If it doesn't spark joy, meaning if it doesn't give you that feeling of joy when you handle it, then you are to get rid of it. Rosa Linda Román (07:43): Well, I don't really want to do that, because we actually did a really nice job in the past year. Here's what we were successful at. And that is, we maintained the KonMari folding process, if you will, meaning all of the clothes except for the big pile on the guestroom bed are folded in what I like to call the bento boxes. By the way, you'll hear some noises. I'll just warn you ahead of time, because I've tried to reduce as much of the static and lousy technical side of the audio, but the fact of the matter is, I live on a boat and when my family left this morning I happily turned off all the air conditioning, and just opened up the boat, and let the breeze come in. It's been raining for days, and days, and days, and days, and days, and days. And if you want to see some of that rain, you can go to my Facebook page and look at that. That would be New Mexicast, but I did some live videos on that page. Rosa Linda Román (08:56): But anyway, so I opened things up so you're going to hear some wind noise, you'll probably also hear the ice machine working in the background, because we have no ice and since we are attached to shore power, we're making ice, which on a side note is one of our favorite luxuries that we have here on the Dawn Treader. A lot of people would not have wasted the power that is required to make that ice, which I'm right next to right now, so you can hear how loud it is, very loud. But that is something that has been something we love, love, love. Rosa Linda Román (09:36): Anyway, so we have the icemaker noise, and the wind, and I'll apologize for that in advance. So, getting back to the new KonMari, if you will, way that I'm approaching this second part of my festival, let's say so when you do KonMari a big part of what determines if you were successful or not is whether you find a click point. And that's a big part of what Marie Kondo talks about in her her book, not just The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up, but also, about the… she has another book called Spark Joy. And a big part of what she talks about is, do you reach a point where it's like everything clicks, and it feels right, and it's the right… Things just come together, and you look at your house, and you feel like you've hit that click point and it just feels good? And a big part of why it doesn't feel like I'm done yet is because I look around the boat, and I see every shelf, corner, surface, everything has clutter on it still. But instead, I mean, I wake up and it like frustrates me to no end, because all of that stuff should be put away. But then, I also think, "Okay, that is an indication that we have not reached the click point." Because if you do the KonMari system, and you do it right, and you see it all the way through, everything has a place and it just goes naturally back to that place. Rosa Linda Román (11:24): You know, when you get home, you unload your bag, and then, things get put where they belong. And it's just kind of a natural flow of things. Well, the problem is, a lot of the stuff that we have here never found a home. And, you know, since it's been a year now we've had some time to kind of sit with some of the stuff and think about what really belongs here on the boat and what and what doesn't. And there's a lot of stuff that we never used in the past year. For example, we brought a lot of learning materials on board, because this was our first experience with homeschooling. And so, I wanted to make sure we had all the supplies we needed. And, really sorry, I'm moving books now as we talk. And I wanted to make sure we had what we needed so that I could educate the kids while homeschooling is a whole different episode to talk about some time, but it definitely wasn't like I had all of these materials. And I would wake up and say, "Okay, great today, here's your assignment. And this is what you're going to do." It was much more, you know, piecemeal than that. And there were a lot of times that we had materials, but either they didn't work for the kids. Rosa Linda Román (12:44): And by the way, they're all hand-me-down materials. I didn't invest in any particular curriculum. It wasn't like I said, "Okay, this curriculum tells us that on Monday or this week you're supposed to accomplish this, this, and this. It was much more of a, "Oh, well, we have this great math program that somebody handed down to us. And so, let's use that." Well, because of that I didn't realize how much we needed and how much we didn't need. Like, I had no gauge of what we really needed to teach the kids, but also like, what of these things here on the boat actually needed to stay and what didn't. And I don't know, a few weeks ago, my daughter Ahava, who is definitely one of my KonMari warriors, and she helps me keep that process going. She said, "Mommy, we don't have learning materials for me." And she tends to want like the fanciest stuff. And so, I thought she was just trying to tell me she wanted me to invest in this really expensive curriculum that she had been looking at. And I said, "We have plenty." And so, to prove it to me, she laid out all the educational materials we had by grade. And sure enough, we do not have what she needs on board. Rosa Linda Román (14:06): And then it got me thinking, especially now that I'm kind of revisiting it in her absence and in all of the kid's absence right now, it got me thinking, you know, what do we have? And do we use all this stuff. And even though it's really cool, like, there's some really nice programs that we have here on the boat, as far as like workbooks and stuff like that, is it stuff we're actually going to use just because it's a great program. If we never use it, it's not a great program for us and then someone else should be able to use that, you know? I really believe that if it's not something that we're putting to use then we need to let it go so someone else can put it to good use. And so, that's part of what is motivating this second chapter, I'll call it, of my KonMari journey, and that is to really look at everything on this boat. I mean everything on this boat and ask the question, have we used this in the past year at all? Rosa Linda Román (14:06): And as I'm looking at, right now I just opened up a cabinet to put away a Spanish book. And these Spanish books were handed down from their school, their public school in New Mexico. They were getting rid of them. And they knew I was interested in making sure my kids learn Spanish. And so, I kept all of these materials. Well, I'm looking at in here and there's flashcards, Spanish flashcards, which seems really great. We have not used them once, not once, and they just take up a cabinet. I'm looking in front of me, I've got like electric candles, which seems like a really good thing to have, because you know, you would want to be able to have some source of light, but you don't want really open fire on a boat, right? So, I thought, "Oh, these little electric candles will work." Well, first of all, they don't do well in this salty air. And secondly, they don't emit enough light to even make it worth it. So, even as I'm talking to you, and I'm explaining this, I am going to take these out of the cabinet. And I'm making a massive pile of things that I think it's time to let go of. Rosa Linda Román (16:25): And my daughter Ahava, she'll be home shortly from gymnastics. She is going to work with me over the next week or so. And we're just going to go through every single piece of this house and just ask ourselves, is this really something that has been used? Is it something that sparks joy? Because I mean, if it's something that totally sparks joy, but hasn't really been used, then those are the things that we kind of have to justify them, right? I mean, I can't think of an example of it right now, because most of the stuff that sparks joy we use and a lot of the other stuff is just taking up space, and so, it goes around the boat over, and over, and over, it just cycles through the boat. And then, it gets moved from one cabinet to another cabinet, because nobody's using it. It has nothing to do with anybody's lives. So, I'm trying to look around and see what actually will be used and what won't. Rosa Linda Román (17:24): And I can tell you, if I'm honest, we could probably get rid of 1/4 of the things that are here on this boat. We certainly have way too many stuffed animals, we have way too many papers and books. We have a lot of games, which I love games. But there's all these games that nobody uses. I mean, I'm looking at, you know, so many of these things and thinking, this makes no sense for us to keep this stuff. And yet we keep it because… I don't know why. I guess I always like learning materials, I love learning, and I love to have learning things on board. But I'm going to try to shift to only what we're actually using so that it makes room and this is the crux of why I'm doing this, not just to eliminate the clutter and keep me from feeling frustrated and stressed every time I look around the boat. But it's because I believe energetically that you cannot attract that what you want most in your life if you are holding on to things that don't work anymore, and whether it's things, or people, or circumstances. So, in order to, you know, it's like I keep this postcard around that says, "In order to discover new oceans you must first have the courage to lose sight of the shore." And that is kind of like my mantra for life. It's like, okay, I have to let go of this stuff which feels so important and meaningful, or significant, maybe not meaningful, but it just feels like we can't get rid of it. Rosa Linda Román (19:06): But then I start to think, wait by holding on to the stuff that I just have a hard time getting rid of, that keeps the stuff, and the people, and the circumstances that belong in our lives that fit what I call our BAL which is our big awesome life, it hinders that, you know, it prevents those good things from flowing into our lives. So, with that in mind, I'm going to take a break and check the audio, because I hear a lot of crackles and I can't tell if it's the headphones or the actual recording. And then, when I come back, I will share some more about what our next plan is, because they are maybe changing. Please stick around. I'll be right back. Rosa Linda Román (19:59): Now I'm going to finish this episode with my daughter. What is your name? Ahava (20:04): My name's Ahava. Rosa Linda Román (20:05): You don't have to lean into the mic. Ahava (20:07): I don't? Rosa Linda Román (20:08): Well, I mean… Ahava (20:09): Okay, you should put these on that gun. Rosa Linda Román (20:10): Okay, she's wearing my headphones. I discovered since the beginning of this recording that there is a very noticeable crackle and hum in the… Ahava (20:23): When you move the mic. Rosa Linda Román (20:24): When I move the mic, but also, just kind of an underlying fuzzy noise, which I don't know how to get rid of. And my daughter came home from gymnastics. Oh, our dogs barking. Please hold. Can you go find out what she's barking about? Ahava (20:41): Hi Nala. Rosa Linda Román (20:44): Okay, we are back. Nala was barking at someone going by. And we're working really hard to teach her to watch and- Ahava (20:51): When to bark and when not to bark. Rosa Linda Román (20:52): Yeah, when to bark and when not to bark. So, what I was saying is, this episode is a little out of… it started out with me talking about what we're working on. And now Ahava's back. And I wanted to wrap things up and not leave you hanging, but I also want to make most use of the time that I have. So, Ahava and I are sitting here sorting. What are we going through mama? Ahava (21:15): We're going through the school supplies. Rosa Linda Román (21:18): Yeah, what is your take on the school supplies? Ahava (21:22): Get rid of everything. Rosa Linda Román (21:23): Oh, great, and not learn anything? Ahava (21:26): Well, most of the stuff are just stuff. Rosa Linda Román (21:29): What does that mean? Ahava (21:30): Like, we don't need them and we'll never use them. Rosa Linda Román (21:33): Yeah, that is basically what we've been looking at, is what do we have that we've never used in the year we've been on the boat, and likely won't use in the- Ahava (21:44): In the coming year. Rosa Linda Román (21:44): … near future. A lot of the educational materials, as I was talking about, we just don't use them. They may be great, you know, they're great for somebody just not great for us, because we don't put them to good use, so what's the point, right? So, that's what I'm sitting here sorting with Ahava. What's up? That's a 50-50? Ahava (22:09): Yeah, I don't know. But it's already half-written. Rosa Linda Román (22:10): Yeah. So, we're looking now at- Ahava (22:13): It's a good program but it's already half-written. Rosa Linda Román (22:14): So, that's what we're doing. We're sorting through things on the boat. I wanted to talk about, I left you before the break telling you that we were going to talk about our upcoming plans and the fact that they might change. And there's no one better than this little girl sitting here to share what we've been discussing, because our original plan was what? Ahava (22:38): To sail up the East Coast, and then, come back down for my bat mitzvah in Puerto Rico. Rosa Linda Román (22:45): Yeah, so what she said, I don't know if you could hear, but she said we were going to sail up the East Coast this summer, and then, sail back down to the Caribbean to be in Puerto Rico for, well, the plan is to be down there for December and January, because she has her bat mitzvah, which is something that you celebrate when you're 13. And it's in- Ahava (23:11): In Judaism. Rosa Linda Román (23:11): In Judaism, of course. And you do that when you're 13 if you're a girl or a bar mitzvah if you're a boy. And we're doing it. Ahava's having hers in San Juan, Puerto Rico in January. Ahava (23:24): Yes. Rosa Linda Román (23:25): So, that was the plan. But you kind of threw a little monkey wrench in just a few days ago. What did you say? Ahava (23:32): I want to stay in Florida for the summer. Rosa Linda Román (23:36): Why? Ahava (23:38): Palm Beach Gymnastics, we rock. Rosa Linda Román (23:40): Yeah say that again. Ahava (23:45): At the end of the day, our coach says, "Good job, goodbye." And then, we all say, "Palm Beach gymnastics, we rock, boom." Rosa Linda Román (23:55): It's your little motto, or chant, or whatever, cheer. Ahava (23:59): It's our cheer or whatever. And so, you asked me why I wanted to stay and I said, Palm Beach Gymnastics, we rock Rosa Linda Román (24:07): "And we rock, boom." And that's the dilemma, because I had said, I love heat, I love being warm. Ahava (24:15): Me too. Rosa Linda Román (24:15): In fact, as I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, as soon as my family, the rest of the family left, I turned off the air conditioning, opened up the windows, I'm enjoying the Florida, you know, the natural air flowing through this boat, but even I felt that being here in the summer was excessive last summer. We were here through the whole summer starting about this week last year. And there were moments that it was even unbearable for me, which is saying a lot because I am very happy being in heat and- Ahava (24:51): Not for me. I never really was too hot unless I was wearing like jeans or something which, but I guess… Rosa Linda Román (25:01): So, you disagree that the summer was bad, too much and whatever? Ahava (25:05): Yeah, what was different is that I don't hate winter in New Mexico- Rosa Linda Román (25:10): So, you're fine with both- Ahava (25:11): [crosstalk] I'm fine with the weather, because gymnastics is an indoor sport. Rosa Linda Román (25:16): Because gymnastics is an indoor sport. We learned the hard way yesterday. So, just a quick side note. Yesterday, we played in the very front… as if I played, but I supported the players in our very first tournament in volleyball. Ziva has been taking beach volleyball up as her sport and taking some lessons. And she found out that there was a tournament here in Delray Beach, and she really wanted to play in it. Well, there was no partner. We couldn't find a partner for her. Ahava (25:50): Because they were playing two and two. Rosa Linda Román (25:51): It was two on two, which meant just two girls. And you needed a partner. Ahava (25:56): For any girl. Rosa Linda Román (25:57): Or a boy, yeah. Boy or girl, it can be co-ed. Well, she was able to get into the tournament last minute, but she didn't have a partner. So, what happened? Ahava (26:06): I was her partner. Rosa Linda Román (26:11): Yeah, the gymnast stepped in, because she's, you know, an athlete. So, she's physically able. Ahava (26:17): I mean, I know how to play volleyball. But I have never played two on two before. Rosa Linda Román (26:21): Right none of us have ever played in a tournament before. And we learned the hard way, which is what brought this up that, it was very hard to play a sport out in the sun all day. How long were you there yesterday? Ahava (26:34): We were there eight hours. Rosa Linda Román (26:36): Eight hours. Ahava (26:39): We got there at 7:30 and went till like 3:15, so… Rosa Linda Román (26:41): Yeah, it was a very long day and exhausting. We used sunblock. But we all got a little sunburn. But it was fun. And I was really proud of you for stepping in and supporting your sister- Ahava (26:58): Thank you. Rosa Linda Román (26:58): Because she couldn't have played at all if we didn't [crosstalk]. No, you didn't win. But the point was to do it and to support your sister, and mission accomplished. So, going back to the change of plans, I don't know if there is a change of plans. We still at this point are planning to leave here in about two weeks heading up the East Coast. But a number of things changed from when we made that plan to now, one being that Ahava is making major progress in gymnastics. Ahava (27:27): Yes, I'm doing back handsprings on beam now. Rosa Linda Román (27:30): And you really enjoy your coach. Ahava (27:35): Coaches. Rosa Linda Román (27:35): Coaches, right. And they feel- Ahava (27:37): And teammates. Rosa Linda Román (27:39): And the gym itself. And you just, you know, there's a lot of good things going on gymnastically. So, that's one thing that may change our plan, because she would like to stay. But another is, I was planning to go up the East Coast largely to see my brother and his family, because he's stationed in the military. And he's a Marine, a U.S. Marine, and he's stationed in Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. Well, I did not coordinate very well. And they made other plans. Ahava (28:08): Actually, it's for Liam's baptism. Rosa Linda Román (28:12): Yeah, so they'll be in Chicago while we were going to be in North Carolina. So, that's a bummer. And that also makes me not feel the rush to head North necessarily, other than to escape the heat. And in the back of my mind, I can't help but remember times where I've gone up to the North East in the summer with my family, and it was quite hot there as well, and there were lots of bugs. And there's going to be lots of bugs here too. But I'm just saying, you know, it's something to think about. If we did stay- Ahava (28:45): That's the great thing about living on a boat, and the worst thing, your plans change. Rosa Linda Román (28:51): That's true. That's a very good way to end, I think. Your plans change and that's the best and the worst thing about living on a boat. Hopefully, more good than bad, though. Ahava (29:03): Most of the time. Rosa Linda Román (29:04): Are you glad to still be living on the boat? Ahava (29:06): Oh, yes. I'm probably the one that loves the boat all day, every day. Rosa Linda Román (29:12): Yeah, you're not like daddy who threatens to sell it every day. Ahava (29:15): Because I have never said. I have never said that I want to live of the boat. Rosa Linda Román (29:20): That's true, you haven't. And I'm glad for that because- Ahava (29:23): Oh, wait. I just did. Rosa Linda Román (29:24): I like to live on the boat. Ahava (29:26): I do too, even though you were saying that too when the AC was broken. Rosa Linda Román (29:31): Oh, yeah. Yeah, I did say maybe we need to put it up for sale, because it was so many projects, so little time that Nathan's on board. It's just one thing after the other, after the other, and it just wasn't fun for him anymore. But hopefully, we can convince him to keep going. Ahava (29:52): Okay. Rosa Linda Román (29:52): All right. Should we wrap it up? Ahava (29:54): Yes. Rosa Linda Román (29:55): Yes. All right. Ahava (29:54): [indiscernible]. Rosa Linda Román (29:58): You're funny. And we're going to go watch the Dark Crystal, because now we have no one else in the house. We don't have to worry, because I don't think my husband would like that movie, because it's just too, you know, it has Muppets in it, so he wouldn't like it. And it would be too scary for your siblings. But I like it and I hope you'll like it. Ahava (30:23): Okay. Rosa Linda Román (30:23): But if you don't at least I'll get to watch it. Ahava (30:25): Yeah. Rosa Linda Román (30:27): So, we got that going forward. Ahava (30:28): If I don't like it then I don't have to watch it again. Rosa Linda Román (30:32): That's right, one time. All right. We're going to wrap this up. Thanks for listening to New Mexi-Castaways. And hopefully, the crackling and background noise wasn't too overwhelming. If you like these episodes, and you want to see more or hear more, feel free to leave a review in iTunes and let people know that it's awesome. And especially, when I have a great interview with someone like Ahava Can you say goodbye? Ahava (31:00): Good job, goodbye. Rosa Linda Román (31:02): Good job, goodbye, and thanks for listening. Bye. Ahava (31:06): Wait, are you done? Rosa Linda Román (31:08): I don't know. Are we done? Ahava (31:10): No, almost. Rosa Linda Román (31:12): Okay. Ahava (31:12): So, one more thing, hold on, let me see. Never mind, but goodbye. Rosa Linda Román (31:19): Oh, come on. Now you left everybody wanting more, what? Ahava (31:12): Okay, and the other good and bad thing about living on a boat is that you're with your siblings. The bad thing is that you're with your siblings all the time, the good thing is that you're with your siblings. Rosa Linda Román (31:42): So, you build a better relationship, but it's a lot of work. Ahava (31:46): Yes. Rosa Linda Román (31:47): Yeah. I often say that for me that's kind of the best and the worst part is that we're forced to deal with conflict quickly but- Ahava (31:56): Because we're all squished together. Rosa Linda Román (31:57): Yeah, we're all squished together. I love you. Ahava (32:03): I love you too. Rosa Linda Román (32:03): Thanks. It was great talking to you. I'm glad you're doing this show. Ahava (32:07): You're welcome. Rosa Linda Román (32:09): That's for Milana. All right, this has been New Mexi-castaways, and I'm Rosa Linda, and… Ahava (32:16): And I'm Ahava Goldfein. Rosa Linda Román (32:09): And we're out of here. Bye. Ahava (32:20): Bye.

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